Full Survey results and comments are available at:
http://www.cityofpacifica.org/government/committees/financing_city_services_task_force/financing_options_and_open_house.asp

Whaaaaat? I thought the Council said we had plenty of time before any action would be taken and that the survey was only a beginning. WTF?

Hutch, you snooze you loose. We all have to stay on top of this.

I wonder if we have a right to examine the surveys. It would be interesting to see how many people commented on wages and benefits. Are they tallying up the majority of feedback?

I too have reached my limit. All these parcel and other taxes already have me cutting back on my necessary medical care and meals.

Brilliant!...........another suggested that the city "make it (the police department) leaner, but don't outsource the entire PD."

Our PD is cut to the bone already. Is it true they're down officers and so they have to work beaucoup OT just so they have shifts covered? I suppose, because of benefits and training, the city figures it's cheaper than filling positions left open.

I did read on the survey that the city estimated a $1.5 million/yr savings by outsourcing to SM Sheriff's Office. Does that figure hold up looking out a few years? Maybe that's what staff is attempting to figure out. Once the police are gone, they're not coming back........and then again, why don't we just cease being a city altogether and disincorporate? Then we won't have any payroll at all!

“There were lots of comments saying it would be far easier to really evaluate that option if we had some real numbers,” he (city manager Stephen Rhodes) said.

No Sh@t! Real numbers, wouldn't that be nice? According to the column in the Pacifica Tribune written by Jim Wagner and Mark Stechbart, this police cost savings number was lifted from the San Carlos city negotiation. This city (Pacifica) is run by utter incompetents.

Governor Brown's proposed ballot initiative has a 1/2 cent sales tax increase. The chron repoted this morn that "support has increased" for this proposal. But buried in the numbers is the fact that many fewer people support a regressive sales tax increase than do an increase in income tax on upper income earners.

So November comes around, and you're faced with regressive sales tax increases in the state and Pacifica, which will again have one of the highest sales tax rates in the state, with one of the weakest commercial bases in the county and you...

What a stupid idea.

Hutch, You have made some very inaccurate statements and many in the community think you are correct. I would be more than happy to sit down with you and better educate you on the state of affairs regarding our salaries and benefits. The men and women who protect YOUR neighborhood are tired of hearing you throwing WRONG information out there. Please consider my invitation.

Bill Glasgo

Where we're these people for the last three years while the city made tons of cuts to police,fire and public works. The cuts already total over $3.5 million . The people who want zero development and zero taxes are dreaming. When the state cuts more and more from the city budgets where will we be then? Try supporting some economic development here or pay as we go.

Really Bill? I do appreciate police and fire, and I want to keep them here. But cities all over the state are figuring out they can no longer afford to pay such high salaries and benefits.

So please tell us all here what I and others have wrong since you say you have the answers?

I would be happy to meet with you and discuss this further.....

Bill I don't know who you are. Are you on the police force? What is your expertise? And why can't you just explain things here?

I realize that most city workers don't retire at 55. But they do have the option. They also get their health insurance paid 100% for themselves and dependents. I believe that continues after they retire but I may be wrong. I also see that the city made wage reductions of about 3% last year. That's great but it's not nearly enough in my opinion.

So please help me and others here understand Bill. What have I got wrong?

Bill, the people who pay the taxes that you live off of are tired of hearing you bleating cries for more money. The information provided by the city to the state is crystal clear on how much each officer earns. You may feel owed judging by your tone, "The men and women who protect YOUR neighborhood are tired of hearing you throwing WRONG information out there," but as stated above the information you and you comrades seem to protest is being provided by the city and not being made up by a citizen.

If you have info you want to share please do. We've all heard of this fictitious cuts equal to $3.5 million but when I reviewed those cuts a large part of that $3.5 was wage freezes and they are not equal to pay reductions. The remainder of the fictitious reductions were a cut in the number of sick/holiday days an employee could cash out and uniform allowances. Bill if your info exceeds this please do share.

Todd I would be happy to meet with you as well. Please understand we all have to be in this together.

I love how the city and supporters of high wages and benefits just say "you have it wrong" and don't provide any facts to back up their position. They have been throwing around this phony 3.5 million number for a month with no numbers to back it up. Then they put out a phony survey and try and force us to pick THEIR options with no information provided. Now that the data is available it's obviously not anywhere near 3.5 million in REAL cuts. So people like Bill want to try and convince us we're wrong behind closed doors. This whole thing stinks and reminds me of Bell.

Yes Bill we are all in this together. People on a fixed income like CQ (above) can't afford any more tax hikes. Most of us paying YOUR salaries don't make half as much as you do. We have huge health insurance deductibles and co-pays. And we must pay for our dependents. We've had our incomes slashed 20% in the past few years. We must go on Medicare at 65 and BTW we can't retire until that age either with a meager $2000 per month. Should I go on?

Todd is right, we're sick of it.

I would love that Bill. I agree we all need to work together but please understand there has been no appreciable level of empathy toward the public or it's financial pain from our public sector. That lack of empathy is pervasive not only here but county, state and nationwide.

Email a time and day that is good for you. Being unemployed I'm pretty much at your disposal. If you have a copy of your last department contract and a current draft that would be very helpful.

Hope to see you soon.

Well I still work Todd. I don't really feel like taking time off to be lectured by a city official who is probably being paid overtime.

I don't understand why Bill can't address my "inaccuracies" here for the public to see.

Hutch, the city, it's employees and advocates can't address their accusations of inaccuracy by you or me because there is no inaccuracy by us just a very complicated construct on their part that requires the willingness to self delude. In essence our senior staff are advocating a narcissistic "pay up or suffer," position to this fiscal issue which is and will continue to be a payroll issue. The modest scaled wage reduction of one percent for every $10,000 earned isn't a penalty, condemnation or editorial on our public employees earning just a common sense and necessary adjustment to the worlds economic collapse.

The narcissism of senior staff is reflected in their denial to accept that diminished revenues means their paychecks are not recession proof. That a hand pick committee cherry picking the desired results from a survey that is lopsided toward taxing the public as a solution to the payroll issue demonstrates to me a lack of commitment from staff and a complete lack of empathy towards the residents who, through various taxes pay their wages and benefits.

Public employees are not sovereign not matter how hard they try to convince themselves that they are. It's a pity our public sector can't accept that things are different for them now as a whole. As Bill says above we are all in this together but that does not mean we need to pay more taxes but rather our city employees must accept a scaled wage reduction that reflects the modern economy.

Well we are wrong Todd. And Officer Glasgo and his comrades in the Pacifica Police Dept don't appreciate us talking in public about it.

Does this seem inappropriate to anyone else? Are we in the USA or Syria?

Wow, what is going on in this town?

Todd, Thank you for agreeing to meet with me. I will be more than happy to provide you with the information you requested.

Mr. Glasco,
It was refreshing to see your offer to speak with Hutch, sometimes the blogosphere can bring out our most polarizing tendencies, and an old fashioned face to face conversation can sometimes restore civility to the conversation. It appears that Hutch has plenty of time to post on the topic, but when given a chance to hear a different point of view is suddenly too busy. Hopefully he or she will come around in time.

Based on over 1,500 responses to a recent survey of residents, the Financing City Services Task Force is asking for a sales tax measure on the June ballot.

Of course we fail to mention there are 22,600 registered voters in Pacifica.

"Civilization is hideously fragile... there's not much between us and the Horrors underneath, just about a coat of varnish." ~C.P. Snow

That coat of varnish is the line which our police officers protect, "the barrier between anomie and a civilized society, between order and chaos, between respect for decency and lawlessness."

I have done "ride alongs" with Pacifica police officers and now realize how skilled and knowledgeable these men and women are in performing their duties day in and day out. This is a VERY dangerous job! These men and women DO put their lives on the line every day. Not many of us can say that. They did give back a lot in their negotiations with the city last year and still there are loud-mouths here on The Patch saying it's not enough.

Does the San Mateo Sheriff's Dept even want to take on Pacifica's law enforcement? Will they offer a sweet-heart contract to begin with like Recology? And then, when our police force is disbanded and a new contract comes up for renewal, could they just say we want this much more now......take it or leave it?

Don't Think Twice, It's All Right

"In my conversations with city workers and residents, I have several times heard the argument that a city, in some ways, has to operate like a corporation in that it has to pay its workers competitively, meaning that if it lowers its salaries or cuts its benefits too much, workers will leave for another municipality or for the private sphere. I wonder if Pacifica isn't already approaching that lower threshold with some positions. For instance, City Manager Steve Rhodes is now the lowest-paid city manager in San Mateo County. What do you think about this argument, hutch?"

Wow, Camden, if you would just do the work of a journalist and collect the data regarding pension obligations from the city you would do the public a real service in providing information as regards a taxpayer obligation that is locked in stone.
The courts have decided on this, we are obligated, and the city has been profligate in their promises. Why aren't you reporting these facts?

The public should know, before any vote on a tax increase, what their obligation is to the city.

Asking for information is rude? Dude, you're in the wrong profession.

Okay guys. I actually wish the Tribune would do some real reporting on this. Ask some tough questions, investigate, report.

Thanks Camden. That's a lot more than the Tribune has done. And I realize you probably have very little budget for investigative reporting.

Please ask what employees get health insurance paid for life. Does that include dependents? Do they pay any out of pocket?

What is our pension obligation?

Can they break down exactly how they came up with 3.5 million in cuts?

Are they listening to the many people saying that wages & benefits need to be cut further?

Are they planning on asking for more cuts this June when some contracts expire? If so what?

Hutch, Bill asked to talk to me so I'm going to simply listen.

Some police department fun facts to absorb... The 2010 compensation data shows W2 information for 55 members of the Department.

Of those 55, 4 are managers/supervisors of special programs, 6 are corporals, 8 are sergeants, 3 are captains and of course 1 chief for a total of 22.

Of the remaining 33 positions only 19 are police officers with the remaining 14 in dispatch, clerking and evidence handling.

19 indians, 22 chiefs... not much balance there. The average wage per officer was around $110,000, average for corporals was around $130,000 and the average for sergeants was around $145,000.

Mr. "Hutch":

I would like to thank you for the care and diligence you have shown in educating yourself about Police Department pay and benefits before making public comments. Unfortunately, I cannot do that since you are woefully misinformed. I would like to correct several inaccuracies in your previous statements:

Please allow me to preface my comments with this: I represent Pacifica's rank and file officers (classifications of Police Officer and Police Corporal). I cannot speak with assurance about any other classification, since I am not intimately familiar with their respective contracts.

#1: Pacifica police officers DO NOT have 100% paid medical, dental, or vision benefits. We receive a set amount that is negotiated with each new contract. That amount is provided in a "cafeteria plan" that allows the employee to choose a unique package of benefits that best suits them and their family. If the cost of their benefits is less than the negotiated amount, they may cash out 50%.

If their benefits cost more than the negotiated amount, the employee pays a monthly copay to cover the cost. Our health plans can cover the Employee Only, Employee +1 Dependent, and Employee + Family. While I don't have a cafeteria plan election form in front of me, I believe that almost all of our plans covering an employee + dependent require a copay, and all plays for employees with families require a co-pay.

(See Part II)

(Part II of my comment above)

#2: Pacifica police officers DO NOT have fully paid medical after retirement. In our last contract, we accepted a provision for a Retirement Health Saving Account (RHSA). The RHSA would allow employees to set aside a certain percentage of pre-tax earnings to be used for health care costs after retirement. As of this time, the POA has not elected to use even that provision. So, your statements that we have fully paid health care after retirement for us and our dependents is erroneous.

Mr. "Hutch", contrary to your statements above, the POA does NOT want to stifle discussion in public. In fact, we encourage it. As taxpayers and citizens ourselves, we know how important it is to be well informed. However, we do want an opportunity for a full, in-depth discussion without a character limit. That is why we often ask to speak to concerned citizens in person. As you can see, just my few brief remarks tonight required three separate comments, and this would probably be just 2-5 minutes of information if we were speaking face to face.

I would encourage you to attend the meeting between Mr. Bray and Mr. Glasgo. If their time does not work for you, I would be happy to arrange a time to sit down with you and answer any questions you have about our work and compensation. I can be reached at mcfallj@pacificapoa.org.

Best regards,

Josh McFall, President
PACIFICA POLICE OFFICERS' ASSOCIATION

Wow, Mr McFall, thank you for giving the perspective of the officers union. I know that it's your job to get the most money and benefits you can for your members. And there's nothing wrong with that. I realize that sometimes means you must put on a front in public in order to place yourself in the best bargaining position.

However the statements you made above don't really tell us anything.
Can you please let us all know what percent the average officer pays towards their own health care? Their dependents?

I hope you can appreciate that most of us in the private workforce do not get wages and benefits comparable to what our public counterparts get these days. In this economy people are losing their houses. I personally have had my pay reduced at least 20% due to the recession. I have a $3000 a year health insurance deductible, and I must pay the entire premium fort my dependents. Most people I know are the same boat.

This isn't a case of "haves and have nots" as I've heard. It's a matter of fairness. Our taxes are being raised to unbearable levels while public employee pay and benefits eat up the money needed for services for the poor and elderly.

So if you can put some actual numbers out there as to how much employees pay verses how much the city pays it would be more helpful than general statements.

And again as I've said several times here, I do appreciate and support all city employees including police, fire, parks and rec. This is not a personal attack on anyone.

Dear Mr. McFall,

It's nice to see you trying to engage the public rather than berate it as in past post of yours. I'm most interested in hearing what Bill is concerned with. It's a pity you feel the need to correct members of the public for expressing concern regarding the overall payroll issue and it's a greater pity that senior staff has decided to chose our police department this time around as the fall guys for their current tax initiative.

I would suggest to you as a fellow union member, IATSE Lc 829, that a scaled wage reduction of one percent for every $10,000 earned by every employee from the city manager right on down the line would be the end of all this self inflicted drama.

My intent has been and continues to be to keep everyone employed. It's heart breaking for me to see our public employees willing to throw each other under the bus rather than band together to save each others jobs and careers.

I feel the ball is in the court of our employees Mr. McFall. What are you all going to do?

Todd, check your profile for a message from me.

HUTCH or TODD would either of you take the same pay cut??????????

As I said "been" my wages like most people not in a government job has gone down substantially (20%+) in the past few years. I like most pay for almost my entire pension, and a good chunk of healthcare and dependents. When we mortal people retire our social security will be $2,000 a month max, not 90% of my last years pay.

But to answer your question, "if I would take the pay cut willingly" of course not. And I don't blame people one bit for not wanting to give these things up. It will be a fight. But in the end we still have no money so it will either be cuts or bankruptcy.

Good articles in the Tribune this week. One posting 2011salaries of all the city employees making over $100K. About half (33) listed grossing over $100,000 are police.This is what we need, real information and numbers. Thank you Elaine! Keep it coming.

Then how about some ideas on generating revenue as cuts alone will only be a temporary fix. As when the quarry was to be built or other projects that bring in new revenue year after year. As people want cuts but want to keep the same service this can not happen. If things are to be contracted out with other companies or agencies aren't they in it for profit or to cover all there costs and then there is no accountability to track where they spend our public funds if they are a private business.

Top gross 2011 wages from the Tribune.

Police sergeant $153,998, $28,365
Police captain $144,748, $28,692
Police officer $122,185, $22,809
Police corporal $143,752, $24,690
Police sergeant $165,985, $28,620
Police sergeant $162,625, $28,903
Police officer $104,634, $22,064
Police sergeant $133,201, $27,125
Police corporal $145,555, $23,747
Police systems specialist $110,674, $10,740
Police captain $168,402, $27,271
Police corporeal $128,424, $23,990
Police sergeant $132,626, $25,080
Police sergeant $157,592, $29,040
Police corporeal $129,950, $23,150
Public safety dispatcher $107,834, $7,525
Police corporeal $137,352, $24,895
Police officer $118,439, $22,107
Police officer $122,888, $22,446
Police officer $116,067, $20,486
Police officer $112,401, $20,389
Police corporeal $121,224, $21,266
Police officer $112,111, $19,886
Police officer $125,076, $21,212
Police officer $124,807, $20,112
Police officer $105,808, $18,843
Police officer $113,796, $18,988
Police officer $112,339, $19,330
Police officer $113,543, $20,229
Police officer $112, 437, $17,446
Police sergeant $168,616, $28,638

Police captain $157,513, $34,042
Police sergeant $147,821, $29,040
Police chief $160,384, $34,734
Paramedic coordinator $172,389, $30,022
Fire Captain $133878, $22,138
Deputy fire chief $193,383, $32,871
Paramedic/engineer/EMT $108,426, $19,223
Paramedic/engineer/EMT $112,885, $18,850
Paramedic/engineer/EMT $122,374, $18,734
Paramedic/engineer/EMT $107,815, $16,835
Fire battalion chief $204,744, $12,084
Fire battalion chief $178,921, $24,973
Paramedic, engineer/EMT $101,305, $17,632
Paramedic/engineer/EMT $101,714, $18,865
Fire captain $136,825, $20,899
Fire captain $136,059, $22,183
Paramedic/engineer/EMT $101,388, $17,499
Fire battalion chief $185,387, $16,217
Fire captain $114,889, $20,483
Paramedic/engineer/EMT $113,042, $18,360
Paramedic/engineer/EMT $102,617, $18,402
Fire captain $127,480, $20,361
Paramedic/engineer/EMT $115,404, $18,321
Human resource analyst $104,330, $10,236
Assistant finance director $136,273, $22,232
Finance systems specialist 110,505, $10,669
Finance MIS manager 129,317, $21,157

Wastewater assistant superintendent $133,337, $22,206
Public Works supervisor $109,376, $10,814
Associate civil engineer $109,441, $19,544
Wastewater source control inspector $113,729, $10,2114
Associate planner $101,590, $17,202
Associate civil engineer $110,627, $19,544
Public works supervisor $111,689, $10,775
Field services manager $151,691, $24,209
Associate civil engineer $103396, $17,498
Public Works superintendent $126,897, $20,685
Wastewater plant manager $166,635, $24,503
Director of Planning/city planner $144,602, $25,967
Director wastewater/plant operator $140,638, $25,480
Wastewater collections manager $135,022, $23,864
Public works superintendent $162,209, $21,448
Wastewater operator II $107,715, $10,337
Wastewater operator III $142,945, $11,908
Associate civil engineer $109,518, $19,348
Director of Public Works/city engineer $167,920, $30,245
Wastewater operator III $160,704, $10,978
Wastewater operator II $135,616, $10,760
Wastewater laboratory tech $100,033, $8,863

Wastewater laboratory supervisor $112,680, $10,763
Fire captain $151,571, $21,726
Wastewater operator II $136,296, $11,149
Wastewater operator III $134,973, $9,993
City clerk/executive assistant $117,102/$19,033
Director of Parks, Beaches and Recreation $148,227, $27,119
Fire battalion chief $204,744 compensation and $12,084
city manager $192,077 compensation, $34,088 pension.

Now I know how Josh McFall felt posting all those paragraphs. Well mine has some meat in it at least.

Todd Bray, did you ever have your meeting with Bill Glasgo? I'm sure there are many of us waiting to read, here on The Patch, what you took away from this get-together.

I did, Bill and I talked for about an hour. It was very productive.

Is that it?!

From me? Yep. Bill asked to talk to me, no the other way around.

Camden was meeting with him too.

Might want to attend:
Financing City Services Task Force
Departments - City Manager/City Clerk/Financing City Services Task Force
Location: Pacifica Police Station
Financing City Services Task Force Meeting
Date: 2/7/2012
Time: 6:30 PM - 8:30 PM

I hate to pry, Todd, but did you learn anything that might have changed your position? I don't really care if you spoke. Did you hear anything worth sharing? Were you sworn to secrecy?

Diet T, I don't know who you are.

Thanks to Therese Dyer the recall effort is underway
Please help us get rid of the council members responsible for letting the city fall into "dyer" straights. There will be 3 separate petitions to recall each of the three long time council members.

Jim Vreeland in particular has missed 26 meetings but has no problem taking our money.

Email Therese and let her know how you can help. They need everything from people willing to put up signs, to gathering signatures or just moral support.

theresedyer1932@gmail.com

They need help with everything from putting up signs to gathering signatures.

Let's do this Pacifica!

This was an interesting conversation